Author Topic: Drive talkin'....  (Read 96535 times)

baritonomarchetto

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2011, 07:32:35 PM »
Yes, i have a complete upright. It's stored in a garage far from my house and i will not work on it in the near future, unfortunately  :'(, but i can read this topic to feel it closer  :D
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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2011, 10:09:24 PM »
Some random video clips....missed some important parts though....but whatever...

http://youtu.be/woKv6xH2ECs

baritonomarchetto

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2011, 05:38:22 PM »
Nice! The test shows a GSP error... does the game starts anyhow?

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2011, 05:53:44 PM »
As long as we piggy backed the bad rams on the mainboard we got one set to run OK in attract and we could start a game.
The other had more issues of course that need to be fixed first...
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 05:56:48 PM by Level42 »

baritonomarchetto

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #34 on: November 08, 2011, 05:31:05 PM »
André, did you shot some photo of the "piggi-backing" work? My Race Driving gave the GSP error when i tested it the last time (one year ago) and i will for sure need to master that "magik trick" in the future ;)
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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2011, 05:52:19 PM »
Nothing magic about it. Take a new RAM, push the legs a little closer too each-other ALL TOGETHER) (f.i. push it on a table so all pins will bend in a bit).
Then push the new RAM over the old one, making sure all legs make contact with that of the old RAM.

That's it. Double check that the chip is exactly over the old pins. Then power up and look what happens.

If you still have a failure, you will have to cut of the body of the old RAM and then you can do the same trick on the left over pins that are still on the PCB.

Remember, this is all just for quick diagnostics and should only be done to figure out what RAMs are bad/can be fixed. The test screens seem very reliable on Hard Drivin' (this is an advantage of new(er) hardware) so what the GSP tests report is probably true.

This pic shows 2 of the RAMs piggy-backed....take a good look (zoom if needed).

baritonomarchetto

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2011, 05:55:26 PM »
Ah, i can see those "Pigs" now  ;D! A closer look was needed, thanks!
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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2011, 07:17:50 PM »
I HATE YOU ATARI !!!!!!!!!

Jeeeeez......I FINALLY finished removing all the old defective RAMs on both PCB sets !!!


WHY, WHY, WHY DIDN"T YOU SOCKET THESE RAMS ATARI, YOU CHEAP, LAZY......&)^%)&^)&^$@$)&^ !!!


248 freaking legs had to be cut, soldered out of the PCB, the holes cleaned of solder, new sockets soldered in, and chips mounted.

I did it in several days because the work is so tedious and well....my focus is not 100% yet.

The worst part was that for some reason, two corner (across each other) holes were close to impossible to get fully rid of solder. Maybe these holes are a bit tighter so the chips "stuck" before they were wave-soldered or something I don't know, but it was a nightmare !!!

I damaged only 1 soldering eyelet, and believe me that was a miracle. Soldered two bridging wires and measured, should be OK now.

Now I want to TEST !!!! I want to know if all this effort was worth it !!

The plan: I've got the same video converter now here (thanks Jochen ! Hope the EA boot works ?) and I will take a switching power supply to put in +5V. The game also seems to use -15V and +22V (or the other way around) but I hope these are simply for sound amps or something like that.

Then there is a good thing about this PCB set: The video signals are not only on the "normal" connector that hooks up to the harness, but they also put those standard "lips" test-points that carry the colors, GND and sync, so very easy for temporary test-hook-up.

Will have to do that tomorrow though !

Something else: I sent Jed Margolin an e-mail with various questions and one remark about ROM numbering details. Most was not so interesting but I thought this was interesting enough to publish:
> Last question: I noticed the Sound board has a text "Speech Out" on it....were there plans for speech on Hard Drivin' ?
 
I put in the circuitry for a Texas Instruments TMS5220 Speech Synthesizer IC. Max (Programmer) and Rick (Project Leader) decided not to use it. So, the parts weren't loaded on the board. If they had wanted speech they could have done it as digitized sound and put it in the sound ROMs.


What a shame would have been nice to have some speech.....does S.T.U.N. Runner use speech ? (Same hardware).

Question for Bart: can you tell me if you already have the Flyback for the monitor ? And where did you buy it ?
« Last Edit: December 03, 2011, 07:19:51 PM by Level42 »

Etienne MacGyver

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2011, 07:54:44 PM »
Why did'nt you call and ask me to bring my desolder iron ?

I'm not using it every day my friend  ;)

Anyway, i hope it solves the problems you have had with this board

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2011, 11:46:41 PM »
Why did'nt you call and ask me to bring my desolder iron ?

Uhhhh....forgot you have one !  :roll: :roll:

However, I doubt it would have made a lot of difference. The tin was really "tough"...


polderarcade

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2011, 09:09:39 AM »
Fly back is ordert but don’t have it yet
Just the easy way ordert at the link you sent me a while back
@ TwistedQuarter
Also i have a spare switching power supply for the one that had some problems

Good to hear you made some progress ;D

Also here a desolder station (when I fix it) at the moment it desoldert itself :-\

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2011, 01:35:56 PM »
OK...I hope to test the boards today here. Gonna be fun to hook them up to my 102cm. LED TV :)

Next step is examining the monitor chassis....bit hard without the tubes though ;)

Anyway, I'll check all the caps with the cap tester and order/replace what's neccesary. Maybe gonna need some new pots too.
I've already checked all the main transistors and stuff that often die with the Fly-back but even on the chassis that had the Fly-back burning they measure out OK, so dropping in the Fly-back should at least bring it back to basic life.

One more thing: The board-sets use two NOVRAM IC's with a built-in battery. One is a 48Z02 "Zeropower", the other is a 48T02 "Timekeeper".
I've read about them on Jed's site (http://www.jmargolin.com/rdy2k/hdzram.htm) and luckily both parts are still in production AND available for good prices from RSonline.

One of them we know already to be bad, because we had to set-up the control values every time at boot up, this is because those data are stored in the "Timekeeper".

However, the Timekeeper is rather expensive, and as Jed writes in that page, you can use a "Zeropower" instead for it, at the cost of loosing the date/time clock functions, but I'm not really that interested in when I played how many games.

Following this we can install two "Zeropower" chips instead of 1 Zeropower and 1 Timekeeper.

The Timekeeper would cost €17,71  (http://nl.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=48T02&sra=oss    check it out, isn't it funny, the faster version is cheaper than the slower !!!! Morons ;))
The Zeropower is only €9,72 (http://nl.rs-online.com/web/c/?searchTerm=48Z02&sra=oss     ahhhh, this time the slower version is cheaper  :roll:)
(Prices including 19% sales tax).

So Bart, please let me know if you wish to replace these and also if you want to go for 2x Zeropower (like I do). Then I'll order the parts. They come from RS's partner Allied in the US which means a delivery time of about 10 days (but still free shipping ;))

« Last Edit: December 04, 2011, 02:17:10 PM by Level42 »

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2011, 01:14:04 AM »
Right ! Finally was able to test the boards tonight !

First I had plans to drive from my work location this week up to Polderarcade, but it turned out I had to work relatively late that day AND the travel time was still about an hour according to TomTom so little to gain.....plus it was the only night to "set-up" the x-mas tree and my son loves that...

Anyway....so I reverted to my initial plan to test them here, and it turned out that that was a good idea. I hooked the board up to +5V only and that was enough to test the boards.

First the good of course:
All main board (GSP) RAMs indicate GREEN, so they are now all OK on both board-sets.

Then...the bad...still had a problem with the ADSP board that already had 4 bad RAMS which I of course replaced.
When booting up I already got an ADSP address error and it froze after that. Same results when rebooted and running ADSP RAM test.

SO I checked the board again. I did this using a trick I learned from Randy Fromm's docs: put your DVM in diode check, hook up the + (red) lead to the GND connection of the board (yes !) and then I touched every single pin on the RAMS I replaced and also the one's "around them".
Of course I the other ADSC board also here so I could compare easily. When checking most pins on the RAMs I got about 0.5 V readings and a beep on the DVM. At one pin on a replace RAM not though. No beep and it showed a little over 1V. Compared it to the working board and there that pin was also about 0.5V and I got a beep, so there had to be something wrong. Sure enough further measuring "up" and "down" the RAMs showed that that pin was connected to the previous and following RAM, so there was a problem in the track. Couldn't see where because it was on the component side, but I simply bridged again with two small wires. Measured again and now I got the same results as on the working board.

Fired it up again with high hopes and........still a problem. This time however, it _would_ finish the ADSP RAM test and didn't crash. However, this time there was ANOTHER RAM that failed, one that was testing OK still before :S RAAAAHHHH.
Checked all pins on the RAM and also the one's "above" and "beneath" that one, no shorts or anything that can be measured with the DVM.
That means removing one more bad RAM !  Tomorrow !!!

B.T.W. Bart and Robin: I have the same poor syncing problems as we had with Bart's monitor, but I used my TV, so I guess that's a problem of the converter. Pretty strange, it doesn't seem to like the sync signal....

Anyway, more laterssssss

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2011, 03:42:17 PM »
PFffffff....

OK here is where I am right now:

I have one solid running board-set, that is, as long as I leave the sound-board disconnected. When I connect the sound-board the voltage is dropping pretty dramatically and the board crashes regularly. I think it's simply because the switcher can't deliver enough current, so I'm just hoping the sound-board itself is OK.

It is time to put it back in the HD !!!

The second board-set is a different story: The main board is stable.
The ADSP is giving me some nightmares though. I tried piggy-backing the "new" bad RAM. Instead of seeing all green (good) RAMs on the test screen, I see ANOTHER bad RAM !!! Piggy-back that and ANOTHER appears !!! WTF ?!?!
Next the ADSP-2100 stops responding. I exchange the 2100 with the one on the good board and the "bad" 2100 runs fine on the good board. So nothing wrong with the 2100's.

Put them back in original boards and remove all the piggy-backs. Get the same 3 "new" bad RAMs again....
Piggy back one of them and get address errors. I guess piggy-backig is not really working in this case !

I'm not sure, but I suspect the RAM is not buffered by anything to the ADSP-2100.....gonna have to check the schematics for this.

Anyway Bart....this is for you. Here are the next options:

1) replace the "new" bad RAMs with sockets and new RAMs
2) replace ALL the RAMs of this type on the ADSP board. I suggest that because I fear more will die soon or very soon. THis is of course a SHIT-LOAD of work and I think it will eat-up our current supply of these RAMs (which I rather don't do)
3) find another ADSP board. This might be worth a shot but not easy

Let me know what you want to do my friend. In all honesty, I think I reached my goal of getting a working set. I don't mind helping a bit more though of course ! Maybe Etienne could come over to desolder the "new" bad RAMs to make this job a bit easier ??

Anyway, my focus will shift for now to the monitor chassis. I'll replace all the caps I've already got here, the others were ordered.

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Re: Drive talkin'....
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2011, 04:20:19 PM »
interesting write-up, andré, although i only understand half of it :P

all i need is ... PONG - and a select few others: TOUCH ME, DRAGON'S LAIR, JOUST, ROBOTRON, MR DO, SAN FRANCISCO RUSH THE ROCK!!!