Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Electronic HandHeld Games & Vintage Toys, Home Consoles & Computers => Topic started by: level42 on November 16, 2013, 01:15:59 AM
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....unbelievable what those guys manage to pull out of what is basically 1979 hardware.
The only extra's used in this demo is a second POKEY for stereo sound and extra RAM. But the work is still done by the 6502 and especially the GTIA and ANTIC video processors.......it seems that with time, the software guys simply seem able to pull more and more out of this hardware, since this demo is from last year, and it is miles better than (already awesome) demos from the late 90s....
No need for the real hardware, just watch it here:
http://youtu.be/XA_264OfBtU
Especially the zooming in and out checkerboard and the curly twisting text blocks are baffling IMHO !
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Its great to see some people are still pushing old hardware to the max in 2012!
Check out www.pouet.net for the latest demos on every platform imagenable! :spaceace:
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Amazing :o :o
Thanks for the link, I'm going to add this gem to our Demo section asap.
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I have a kit to install a 2nd POKEY on one of my A8 machines. I'm really not into any hardware upgrades like extra processing and video power because IMHO that totally changes the machine but that stereo POKEY sound is SAAAWEEEET !!!!
Atari should have done that BITD !
(Extra memory is fine too IMHO) I just don't like things like the VBXE which makes the 8 bit machine output stuff that looks like Amiga/Atari STE quality. I just miss the point of it.
It does produce sweet graphics for sure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yvPCetUPsgQ#t=27
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:o :o :o :spaceace:
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I love projects like this!
They never seem to fail to hypnotize me completely! :shock:
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nice 8)
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I *love* the demoscene, and especially what those coders can cram out of such old machines these days.
I couldn't code a single line even if my life depended on it so I'll just stick to creating some simple music on my Amiga :)
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Wow, very impressive. I wasn't aware that they still keep making those videos that much....good to see they do take care of the old 'boys' :)
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I *love* the demoscene, and especially what those coders can cram out of such old machines these days.
I couldn't code a single line even if my life depended on it so I'll just stick to creating some simple music on my Amiga :)
MOVE.L <- there! Thats a single line of code :D :D
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Suck me sideways!
Reminds me of this:
I grew up with the PC 286, and we were totally flabbergasted back then by Second Reality made by Future Crew.
Recently they did it again! Not on a PC, but on a C64. The same demo, but rewritten for an even older machine. Amazing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVPW40ygds4
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Awesome one, some of the best SID music I've heard !
If anyone still wonders why I want to have Stereo POKEY's in one of my A8 machines (haven't decided which one yet though ! :)):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWi4lH5Xdwk
I think this about ends the discussion about SID or POKEY :)
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Awesome one, some of the best SID music I've heard !
If anyone still wonders why I want to have Stereo POKEY's in one of my A8 machines (haven't decided which one yet though ! :)):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWi4lH5Xdwk
I think this about ends the discussion about SID or POKEY :)
Great stuff...but there has never been a discussion that SID is far better than Pokey ;) ;D :P
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Oh yeah, how many arcade games do you know that use SIDS, HUH ?? ;D ;D ;D
I know SID is better on paper, but with software tricks it's possible to poor so much out of the POKEY.....
Oh and it has one more channel, it can link two channels to have 2 channels at 16 bit resolution, and, most important to me, the best bass sound. It also handles a keyboard and potmeters.....no SID can do that ;D ;D ;D ;D
BITD I had my 600 XL hooked up to my stereo system, and just listening to the "intro" song of DK was so awesome with the fat bassline.....
Oh and SID is about 4 years newer, which was like AGES in that point of time in hardware developments.
It was also impossible to get any sounds out of it at all using the lousy and ancient PET basic they ditched into the C64 (just to get it done cheaply, typical Commodore....) whereas the Atari had full support of the POKEY in basic with the SOUND command....
Indeed, there is no discussion what was the better system, the other system was just more popular because of the "my neighbor has it so I want it too" factor......
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I like SID better ;) ;D
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Paula is the best soundchip. Period. ;)
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No Amy......Ah damn....that never got from drawing board :)
Etienne, you even like the Crazy Kong sounds.......I mean.......
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No Amy......Ah damn....that never got from drawing board :)
Etienne, you even like the Crazy Kong sounds.......I mean.......
I do ! LOL ;D ;D ;D
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Hi,
Sorry for digging up this old debate, but as a HUGE fan of the ATARI 8 bits computer, I'm gonna add one more quality to the POKEY sound chip ;).
As said Level42, it has 4 channels, but more important, the 4 channels can do noise ! Where SID has 3 "music" channels and 1 "noise" channel, Pokey has 4 and it makes a great difference ! The same remark applies to the ATARI ST or Amstrad CPC who share the same sound chip (respectively Yamaha YM2149 or General Instrument AY-3-8910, which are the same ;) ) => only one noise channel for them too. So sad.
For music, I agree that SID can do fantastic sounds that Pokey could never do. OK. But for noise, such as engines, explosions, jet engines, etc., Pokey is fantastic because it can combine several noise channels together to make great sound effects.
Just listen the sound effects in Rescue on Fractalus (also known as "Behind Jaggy Lines") : the engine sounds are fantastic ! :)
There can be 4 channels for noise, and the configuration of each of them is pretty rich : such as several settings of the polynomial sequence that is used for the white noise !
Yes, POKEY is great :).
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Thanks buddy, you are absolutely right.
In the end it was often what the programmers were able to poor out of the hardware I guess.
Yes the Atari ST sound chip was a stupid choice. But after all, we now know that the ST was really a Commodore and the Amiga really an Atari ;)
And they did one absolutely brilliant and incredibly cheap (hey, it was the Tramiels calling the shots) move on the ST: investing a couple of pennies to give it a MIDI connection. They sold thens of thousands of STs just for that incredibly simple MIDI port :)
The one thing I keep hating about SID is that it sounds, sorry I don't know if that is the correct word, but it sounds "nasally" where the POKEY sounds much more "open" and clear.
Compare:
SID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utT2f2J-IP0
POKEY: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzZFvMecJmc
The SID sounds "fake" and like it has a cold ! I never figured out wether that was something of the chip itself or that Commodore (once again) cheaped out on the amplification electronics....
The POKEY sounds nice and open and clear compared. Yes the waveforms are simpler but I find it more pleasant to hear :)
(Nice side-story: I vividly remembering seeing the Ghostbusters intro at my cousin's the first time on a C64 and I definitely thought at that moment that the A8 could never do that......imagine how I felt when I showed my cousin the A8 version a couple of weeks later ;D ;D ;D
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Thanks buddy, you are absolutely right.
In the end it was often what the programmers were able to poor out of the hardware I guess.
Yes the Atari ST sound chip was a stupid choice.
and still jochen was doing amazing things with it. i was listening to unreleased stuff one or two years ago and it blew my mind.
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Thanks buddy, you are absolutely right.
In the end it was often what the programmers were able to poor out of the hardware I guess.
Yes the Atari ST sound chip was a stupid choice.
and still jochen was doing amazing things with it. i was listening to unreleased stuff one or two years ago and it blew my mind.
Well....that seems to be true for all the hardware BITD (and maybe even now).
After lots and lots of years the programmers had learned to trick out the graphics and sound hardware to make it do thinks the hardware designers never even thought would be possible. This is true for both graphics and sound and on all hardware platforms. Look what the late 90s polish games look and sound like on the A8....when I sold my 600XL to get an ST in the mid 80's I had never dreamed the A8 could do that stuff....
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Two amazing new games from the (German) Abbuc yearly contest.
These guys are making magic IMHO !!!
First: RGB: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTbDx-JX3QM
More info here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/229321-rgb-a-game-for-the-abbuc-software-contest-2014/
Second: Dimo's Quest: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4m6MRQbkfk&feature=youtu.be
This game is influenced by/a tribute to one of the best games ever on the Lynx: Chip's Challenge.
More info here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/222265-abbuc-swc-2014-dimos-quest/
It never seizes to totally baffle me what these guys manage to trick out of this old hardware !!!!
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And while we're talking about those great little machines......here's my Markplaats pick up of today.....Yep another one.....oops I did it again, but for some good reasons.
This unit looks a lot better than the one I already had. That one has a pretty bad name plate and cartridge doors. Also the protection cover of the PBI was missing on the back. Further I had one key failing (the H), maybe I can fix that, but I saw this one on Marktplaats and scored it for 20 Euro. If you ever bought a seperate POKEY (which this includes) you know this is a great price for the entire machine which is 100% working.
Now I regret that I didn't buy 4 4464 RAM ICs instead of the 2 I recently got on ebay. These two chips and a couple of wires turn the internal RAM to 64k so it is the same as an 800 XL.
I've been modded the first 600 XL further with a Stereo upgrade (with an extra POKEY) and modded the video output so that it has S-video out now, just like the 130XE, only this looks even better.
Final mod will be an internal mod to include a "RS-232" or SIO2PC port with just a single chip. Done this on the XE and has been working great for years. With the right software any PC or Mac can serve as 8 Floppy drives and a bunch of other stuff.
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Hi !
Thanks for the links to the video ! They look great !! From link to link, I ended up on the Arsantica demo I didn't know :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eY_YsoR11d8
the part at 3:00 is pretty nice and impressive ! :shock:
Nice catch for your 600 XL !! :-* It reminds me the sad discovery I did a few months ago. While I was preparing a few old machines for the Freeplay exhibition show I was participating to, I took my dear loved 800XL, the one I used in the eightees. It is in perfect shape, in its original box, etc. But what a shock when I plugged it in, and discovered it was not working anymore :'(. I get a blank screen : it looks like Antic generates a blank video signal, but nothing else happens. I really have to look at it and repair it ! ^-
I also have 2 ATARI 800, and an ATARI 400 to repair among other ATARI stuff ;) !...
I never moded my ATARI 8 bits, I should try one day :) (I think I couldn't do it on my original 800XL, but on another one, why not).
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Should be easy to find the problem, chips are all socketed on the XL's......bless Atari Inc.
Atari Corp. (Tramiel era) quickly changed that of course :(
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Yeah, I'm keeping some of my systems original, like the XEGS and 800 PAL. No you really shouldn't mod your first 800XL. I sold my 600XL (and all other 8 bit stuff I had then) to get a 1040STfm. I regret it now though and I've never had the love for the ST like I did for the 8 bit machines.
I hacked in the SIO2PC interface into my 130XE maybe 10 years ago or so...it was the shit then and the first good use of a PC I had found so far ;) ;)
That was before SIO2SD and MyIDE carts etc.
Seriously looking into getting this by the way:
http://www.mega-hz.de/Angebote/THE!CART/THE!CART_EN.htm (http://www.mega-hz.de/Angebote/THE!CART/THE!CART_EN.htm)
I'm not really happy with the MyIDE I've got now. It's a great product (Developped by our friend Sijmen) no doubt about it, but it's a little bit too technical for me.
I am lazy when it comes to these kind of things. I just want a simple, fast and easy way to have as many games as possible on one device.
It also looks a lot better because the MyIDE has an IDE connector on top, on which there is an IDE to Compact Flash adapter and on top of that a Compact Flash card is inserted.
I also have many games not running from it, I have no idea why though.
What I really like about the The!Cart is that you can simply start typing (any part of) the name of the game you want to play instead of having to scroll through lists.
And........the Studio software runs on Windows, Linux and OSX and that I like a lot ! :)
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....unbelievable what those guys manage to pull out of what is basically 1979 hardware.
The only extra's used in this demo is a second POKEY for stereo sound and extra RAM. But the work is still done by the 6502 and especially the GTIA and ANTIC video processors.......it seems that with time, the software guys simply seem able to pull more and more out of this hardware, since this demo is from last year, and it is miles better than (already awesome) demos from the late 90s....
No need for the real hardware, just watch it here:
http://youtu.be/XA_264OfBtU
Especially the zooming in and out checkerboard and the curly twisting text blocks are baffling IMHO !
What did I just watch?!?!? ??? ??? ???
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Boogie nights by lamers.
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....unbelievable what those guys manage to pull out of what is basically 1979 hardware.
The only extra's used in this demo is a second POKEY for stereo sound and extra RAM. But the work is still done by the 6502 and especially the GTIA and ANTIC video processors.......it seems that with time, the software guys simply seem able to pull more and more out of this hardware, since this demo is from last year, and it is miles better than (already awesome) demos from the late 90s....
No need for the real hardware, just watch it here:
http://youtu.be/XA_264OfBtU
Especially the zooming in and out checkerboard and the curly twisting text blocks are baffling IMHO !
What did I just watch?!?!? ??? ??? ???
A demo. Never heard of demo's ? Demo's were programs that you simply watched and listened while they did all kind of amazing graphical (and audio) stuff that you first thought would be impossible on your Atari, C64, Amiga, ST or whatever your machine was at the moment. Basically you tried to have the latest and greatest demo's to show off to your friends who had competing systems so to "prove" your machine was better ;) :D
This demo runs on standard Atari 8-bit machines but it needs a memory upgrade (it requires 192k) but that is just for getting the data "ready" fast enough, basically it runs in the standard 64kRAM. Also, on the youtube video you can clearly hear the music is stereo which is of course not standard on the A8's.
But it's freaking easy and cheap to add it to your machine John:
http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=45
Oh and this demo detects if there is stereo available. If not it will still run but then with "just" mono sound I guess.
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....unbelievable what those guys manage to pull out of what is basically 1979 hardware.
The only extra's used in this demo is a second POKEY for stereo sound and extra RAM. But the work is still done by the 6502 and especially the GTIA and ANTIC video processors.......it seems that with time, the software guys simply seem able to pull more and more out of this hardware, since this demo is from last year, and it is miles better than (already awesome) demos from the late 90s....
No need for the real hardware, just watch it here:
http://youtu.be/XA_264OfBtU
Especially the zooming in and out checkerboard and the curly twisting text blocks are baffling IMHO !
What did I just watch?!?!? ??? ??? ???
A demo. Never heard of demo's ? Demo's were programs that you simply watched and listened while they did all kind of amazing graphical (and audio) stuff that you first thought would be impossible on your Atari, C64, Amiga, ST or whatever your machine was at the moment. Basically you tried to have the latest and greatest demo's to show off to your friends who had competing systems so to "prove" your machine was better ;) :D
This demo runs on standard Atari 8-bit machines but it needs a memory upgrade (it requires 192k) but that is just for getting the data "ready" fast enough, basically it runs in the standard 64kRAM. Also, on the youtube video you can clearly hear the music is stereo which is of course not standard on the A8's.
But it's freaking easy and cheap to add it to your machine John:
http://www.lotharek.pl/product.php?pid=45
Oh and this demo detects if there is stereo available. If not it will still run but then with "just" mono sound I guess.
I seem to remember demos. Dunno. :)
This thread is really making me want to do another Atari 800XL video!!!!
I wonder if it's possible to hook my 800XL up to my SONY PVM monitor. Is it?!
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YES DO IT !!! :) :)
Let's promote that little awesome machine a bit more :)
Yes of course you can hook it up to the PVM ! :)
I'll get the details, just a minute.
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OK, 800 XL (by standard) has only Composite video out for color.
Get one of these cables:
http://www.allekabels.nl/din-kabel/130/684/din-tulp-kabel.html
(Yes I know it's Dutch, just look at the picture :))
(http://image.allekabels.nl/image/711-0/din-tulp-kabel-din-5-polig-male-naar-4x-tulp-male-1.2-meter.jpg)
and you're done :)
The good thing about this cable (the one with 4 RCA connectors) is that it can also handle S-video (chroma/luma) if you decide to mod your 800XL to output it (not too hard to do).
Oh and for the video connection you need an RCA to BNC adapter like this:
(http://image.allekabels.nl/image/798-0/bnc-naar-tulp-verloopstekker-tulp-female.jpg)
The audio connector should already be an RCA connector on the PVM. Even better: hook it up to a decent stereo system :D
The composite will look a lot better than RF on your old-school TV already but if you want to go ultimate you'll need to mod the 800XL to pump out Chroma signal.
It's not that hard to do and if you are seriously going to use the 800XL a lot again it is definitely worth the trouble.
http://www.wolfpup.net/atarimods/supervid.html
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I just bought this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/331123763084?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
That will work with the PVM, right?
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Yes but that one can handle composite only. Nice about that one is that it seems to split the (mono) sound to both the red and white connectors so if you hook it up to a stereo device (TV/Receiver/Amp) you'll hear the sound from both speakers.
If you have mono sound only (PVM) you'll only need to hook up one of the red or white.
The PVM's sound is disgraceful though (makes sense, they were not meant to produce audio, just picture)....you should try hook it up to something else for your videos.
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Yes but that one can handle composite only. Nice about that one is that it seems to split the (mono) sound to both the red and white connectors so if you hook it up to a stereo device (TV/Receiver/Amp) you'll hear the sound from both speakers.
If you have mono sound only (PVM) you'll only need to hook up one of the red or white.
The PVM's sound is disgraceful though (makes sense, they were not meant to produce audio, just picture)....you should try hook it up to something else for your videos.
Ok, cool! Good to know. I think I am ok with composite only. I've been using my crappy 13" TV from when I was a kid. Anything will be an upgrade. :)
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I am sure it will be, no more static like your last vid.
Looking forward to a vid like that again, although my heart is in a C64, i still like these videos on a Atari.
You could perhaps record straight into your mac, and let the video software record it instead of the camera.
that way you can use a audio input and mix that straight into the video, thats the best way to get the audio in the recording i guess?
Also your podcast mic will be better than the mic on your camera i guess.
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Yes it will be a HUGE improvement of what I saw on your last A8 video.
You'd need some kind of analogue to digital converter to capture the video and audio straight from the monitor output, but I think it's more fun to see the machine and the CRT monitor and John's "interactions" with it. Thank God the 800XL top is brown already.
OK....that's getting old now.
Off topic PS: your impression of an English guy speaking was the funniest shit ever on the show, even better than the Indian/Pakistani whatever it was you did before. It's funny no-one complained about you being racist when you impersonate an English human being...... ;D
I'd love to hear you try a Dutch accent.... ;D ;D
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I am sure it will be, no more static like your last vid.
Looking forward to a vid like that again, although my heart is in a C64, i still like these videos on a Atari.
You could perhaps record straight into your mac, and let the video software record it instead of the camera.
that way you can use a audio input and mix that straight into the video, thats the best way to get the audio in the recording i guess?
Also your podcast mic will be better than the mic on your camera i guess.
I sort of like using my camera to film the screen. Seems more real. :) These guys with the capture cards and the perfect video feels really sterile to me.
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Exactly. You could even run emulation and capture that, it would be almost the same and as sterile.
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Yes it will be a HUGE improvement of what I saw on your last A8 video.
You'd need some kind of analogue to digital converter to capture the video and audio straight from the monitor output, but I think it's more fun to see the machine and the CRT monitor and John's "interactions" with it. Thank God the 800XL top is brown already.
OK....that's getting old now.
Off topic PS: your impression of an English guy speaking was the funniest shit ever on the show, even better than the Indian/Pakistani whatever it was you did before. It's funny no-one complained about you being racist when you impersonate an English human being...... ;D
I'd love to hear you try a Dutch accent.... ;D ;D
SOD OFF!!! WANKER!
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I am sure it will be, no more static like your last vid.
Looking forward to a vid like that again, although my heart is in a C64, i still like these videos on a Atari.
You could perhaps record straight into your mac, and let the video software record it instead of the camera.
that way you can use a audio input and mix that straight into the video, thats the best way to get the audio in the recording i guess?
Also your podcast mic will be better than the mic on your camera i guess.
I sort of like using my camera to film the screen. Seems more real. :) These guys with the capture cards and the perfect video feels really sterile to me.
No no, not recording straight in the pc, i mean let the pc record the image of your camera, and only the audio straight, into the pc (and your comments)
so the actual recording will be handled by the pc (through the lens of your camera, as in the camera beeing the video source, you know like a webcam)
its dificult to explane for me as english is not my native language ;D
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;D ;D ;D
Looking at the first 800XL video again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYfeIsSIEtA) it's going to be WAAAAAAAY better picture.
I am SERIOUSLY jealous of that Indus GT floppy drive by the way. If you ever come across another one (for a good price ;)) let me know !
I remember I had US Atari magazines and saw the ad for the Indus GT and I was drooling all over it as I only had the 1010 tape drive back then.....later I got a 1050 of course...
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;D ;D ;D
Looking at the first 800XL video again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYfeIsSIEtA) it's going to be WAAAAAAAY better picture.
I am SERIOUSLY jealous of that Indus GT floppy drive by the way. If you ever come across another one (for a good price ;)) let me know !
I remember I had US Atari magazines and saw the ad for the Indus GT and I was drooling all over it as I only had the 1010 tape drive back then.....later I got a 1050 of course...
Yeah, the Indus GT rules. I remember those ads too. They really made it seem like a European sports car. I traded my 1050 for the Indus GT with my friend. To this day I still don't understand why he wanted to do the trade. The thing still works! So, I guess it was a good trade. :)
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(http://www.retrobits.net/atari/images/indus/indusad1.jpg)
Most 1050's still work too, I got two.
I guess he probably wanted to build a "Happy" in it. With a "Happy" the 1050 is about the best drive to get for the A8s.
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(http://www.retrobits.net/atari/images/indus/indusad1.jpg)
Most 1050's still work too, I got two.
I guess he probably wanted to build a "Happy" in it. With a "Happy" the 1050 is about the best drive to get for the A8s.
Happy? Never heard of that. Was this around back in the day?
https://www.8bitclassics.com/atari-1050-happy-upgrade.html
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I just made some comparison screen shots. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one is RF and which one is S-video....... :D
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I just made some comparison screen shots. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one is RF and which one is S-video....... :D
Wow! I can't hook S-Video up to my PVM though, right?!?
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Two more....
Oh and this IS the SAME B&O television :)
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I just made some comparison screen shots. I'll leave it to you to figure out which one is RF and which one is S-video....... :D
Wow! I can't hook S-Video up to my PVM though, right?!?
Mmmmm, yes I do think so. The only thing that can be missing is RGB IIRC. Post a picture of the back side of the PVM and I can tell you for sure.
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Yes the Happy was THE hottest item to get BITD, at least here in Holland. Only "rich" guys had them. It's an add-in board for the 810 or 1050 drives. It speeds up transfers but most important (well back then) was that it made it possible to copy protected discs :)
I never bought one BITD, couldn't afford it. Out of frustration over that I bought one a couple of years ago, www.atarimax.com was still making/selling them but I don't see them on his website anymore.
It is dead easy to install. Just get out the processor and ROM and pop in the Happy board into the empty socket (IIRC).
http://www.atarimax.com/happy/happy_install.pdf
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Hi Guys,
Thank you so much for this discussion, and for the link to the John's video about the 800XL ! :-*
I haven't been for that long in the small arcade collectors world, so I didn't even know that the guy who makes the "John's Arcade" videos could be on Dragon's Lair Fan ! :-\
Hey John, I really love your videos in general (I mean not just this one about the 800XL). Your uninterrupted flow of words shows so much energy, so much passion that it's every time a pleasure, every time refreshing, something making you stronger in a way :) !
(sorry for my bad English, I'm not sure I use the right words to express my feeling...)
And that particular video about the 800XL was so cool ! I love your game room John, and now I understand why : we have the same background ! Like you, I have hundreds of 800XL floppy disks full of arcade's hits, and other gems of video games ! Like you I dedicated my teenage period to the ATARI computer world. I ended up studying computer science, and even made a carreer in video game industry : you're perfectly right when you say we were damn lucky to own such a great machine ! The BBS were not existing in France at that time (phone calls were very expensive, even for local calls, and we had "Minitel" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel), a specific French thing, some kind of terminal including a modem to connect to dedicated servers...), but we had other ways to exchange programs. We were not really considering ourselves as pirates, because most of those programs were just not sold in France (maybe in a very few shops in Paris, but nowhere else ;)).
I never heard about ATASCII ANIMATOR ! :D You did a terrific job considering the limitation of the character set ! ^-
Looking at your video was recalling me so much memories !... And you know what is the icing on the cake : the recurring attract mode of Pole Position we can hear on the background ! :-*
Serioulsy John, if you're visiting France one day - I'm pretty close the "Châteaux de la Loire" ;)), we must meet and see each others. I'm sure we could talk for hours about arcade and ATARI 800XL memories :).
Kind regards,
Little_Rabbit
PS : I confirm your image will be much better with the composite video cable ;)
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Hey Little Rabbit....did you/do you have SECAM 8-bit systems ?
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Hi Guys,
Thank you so much for this discussion, and for the link to the John's video about the 800XL ! :-*
I haven't been for that long in the small arcade collectors world, so I didn't even know that the guy who makes the "John's Arcade" videos could be on Dragon's Lair Fan ! :-\
Hey John, I really love your videos in general (I mean not just this one about the 800XL). Your uninterrupted flow of words shows so much energy, so much passion that it's every time a pleasure, every time refreshing, something making you stronger in a way :) !
(sorry for my bad English, I'm not sure I use the right words to express my feeling...)
And that particular video about the 800XL was so cool ! I love your game room John, and now I understand why : we have the same background ! Like you, I have hundreds of 800XL floppy disks full of arcade's hits, and other gems of video games ! Like you I dedicated my teenage period to the ATARI computer world. I ended up studying computer science, and even made a carreer in video game industry : you're perfectly right when you say we were damn lucky to own such a great machine ! The BBS were not existing in France at that time (phone calls were very expensive, even for local calls, and we had "Minitel" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minitel), a specific French thing, some kind of terminal including a modem to connect to dedicated servers...), but we had other ways to exchange programs. We were not really considering ourselves as pirates, because most of those programs were just not sold in France (maybe in a very few shops in Paris, but nowhere else ;)).
I never heard about ATASCII ANIMATOR ! :D You did a terrific job considering the limitation of the character set ! ^-
Looking at your video was recalling me so much memories !... And you know what is the icing on the cake : the recurring attract mode of Pole Position we can hear on the background ! :-*
Serioulsy John, if you're visiting France one day - I'm pretty close the "Châteaux de la Loire" ;)), we must meet and see each others. I'm sure we could talk for hours about arcade and ATARI 800XL memories :).
Kind regards,
Little_Rabbit
PS : I confirm your image will be much better with the composite video cable ;)
Thank you for the kind words, Little Rabbit! :) And, thanks for watching the videos.
This thread is really making me want to bust out the 800XL!!!
BTW -- there is a 14" PVM on Craig's List locally for $60. I think I will go get it so I can have a dedicated PVM for my retro consoles and computers and I can leave the other one on top of the Dragon's Lair!
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A demo. Never heard of demo's ?
we even have some demo guys here from good old Atari ST. ;)
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BTW -- there is a 14" PVM on Craig's List locally for $60. I think I will go get it so I can have a dedicated PVM for my retro consoles and computers and I can leave the other one on top of the Dragon's Lair!
great deal, thats 47 euro's for a professional grade monitor!
And it will save you all the hassle.
Oh and don't forget all the dissapointed spectators at the dragonslair machine while your'e at the desk using it for the atari ;D ;D ;D
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Good idea John,
The PVMs have a great pitcure but for me the biggest drawback is the sound. I had a 20" PVM very shortly but it was not 100% OK and I got a JVC professional monitor instead. This has a medium resolution tube (which is pretty rare) and has an incredible picture. I had hoped to use the tube for an Amplifone set-up for my Gravitar, but the thing is too modern (dual focus) so I doubt it will work and I guess I'll use it as a test monitor.
BITD I had the sound of the Atari connected to my stereo system in my room and that rocked...really loved pumping up the bass during DK ;)
The B&O MX4000 TV I got thanks to RobinHolland is my prefered display for the A8s now. It has everything (Composite,S-video, RGB through SCART on both connectors) and the picture quality is one of the best I've seen on a TV. Also, it's a big CRT diagonally, but REALLY shallow, so it takes up relatively small footprint. Stereo sound is very good too, although not as good as a seperate (good) stereo set of course.
I also still have a Commodore 1084 monitor (=Philips CM8833) which also still rocks, but picture is a bit small for my old eyes ;) It's a great testing monitor for the arcade machines because it has RGB in too.
The PVMs and especially the JVC pro monitors go for good prices here too (marktplaats) Etienne it's not hard too hard to find one. The 1084s went for something like 10/20 euro some years ago but they seem to get a bit more rare now and also a bit higher priced.
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Hi,
Hey Little Rabbit....did you/do you have SECAM 8-bit systems ?
Yes, I have a few ones. I'm sure I have a SECAM 130XE, brand new in its box, never used :). I must have an XE Game System as far as I can remember, and possibly a 600XL or 800XL, I do not clearly remember (my collection is such in a state of "mess" !...).
But in my opinion, the SECAM versions of the ATARI 8bits are really bad :-(. They are bad because the color adaptation is rather poor : for some reasons, the engineers who designed the conversion reduced the number of bits for the luminance to 3 bits instead of 4 ! It means you only have 8 levels of luminance for a given hue, instead of 16 :-(. The GTIA mode allowing the nice shading with 16 levels in PAL is reduce to 8 in SECAM :-(. And, if it wasn't enough, the color palette doesn't really match the original colors. For example, if you compare Pole Position on the PAL system with the SECAM system, the color of the grass is not the same :-(...
In my opinion, the SECAM version is the Third World version of the 8bits ATARI computers ;).
I also have a board for the ATARI 800 that ATARI France designed at the time the ATARI 800 was sold. Because the 800 was PAL only, and French TV sets were SECAM only (rarely with PAL compatibility at that time), they designed this board to get some kind of RGB SCART output. I say "some kind" because it was a really poor system. It reduced the 256 colors palette of the ATARI 800 to... 8 colors as far as I remember ! :-(( Actually, it used I think 3 bits of the luminance to directly use them as R, G and B input !... No need to say there were absolutly no corresponding colors !...
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Interesting stuff ! I saked because some Atari hardware developpers were discussing SECAM on the A8s on facebook.
The 800 "solution" sounds what they did with the 2600....the Secam can only produce 8 colors where the PAL can do 104 or so and NTSC 128...
(http://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html#interactive_color_charts)
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Hi,
The 800 "solution" sounds what they did with the 2600....the Secam can only produce 8 colors where the PAL can do 104 or so and NTSC 128...
ATARI VCS different palettes (http://www.randomterrain.com/atari-2600-memories-tia-color-charts.html#interactive_color_charts)
I might be wrong, but the pictures I remember generated by an ATARI 800 with this RGB adaptor were very different what does a SECAM VCS : only vivid and primary colors like would display micro-computers such as an Oric 1, or a TO7 for example.
You intrigued me with this 8 colors thing on the VCS... I read several articles today about that, including some discussions on ATARI Age, and I do not agree with what they say (or at least my memories of the VCS do not match what they say ;)). I have to do more investigations, take pictures and count the colors available on the SECAM VCS... I agree the colors didn't match at all the original ones, but I'm convinced there were more than 8 colors... For example, on the Centipede title screen, you have the ondulating centipede. The NTSC/PAL versions feature a rainbow color effect with I guess 128 colors or so. On the SECAM console, the rainbow effect was only made of shade of grey. But that's at least 8 levels of grey, and since we also had other colors, it's already more than 8 colors ;).
Anyway, it's true that SECAM territories were particularly disadvantaged back in those days !...
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Short update, picked up 2 4464 RAMs from The post office which I had bought through e-bay from Israël of all places...
Did the mod right away when I got home and man is it easy: swap out the two 4416s for the 4464s and solder three small wires, done. 64kB of RAM just like the 800 XL had standard. So basically I now have an 800XL in a much sleeker housing :)
I just wish I knew how to do this BITD.....would have save me from having to buy this ugly thing:
(http://www.retrogames.cl/imagenes/varios/zz/atari1064.jpg)
Next SIO2PC.
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Woohoo, look what was in my mail yesterday.....I finally became a member of the most famous Atari user group ever, ABBUC.
What a crazy exiting feeling to receive floppy's, one of them full of brand new games.....DAMN most of my A8 stuff is in storage but I still got the 600XL and 1050 here, but no SIO cable to connect them....so can't try them now.....VERY tempted to dig up the cable in the storage....
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Atari XL emulating C64 SID.......skip to 1.00 for some nice Level 42 inspired music :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-hUPZAtkyEA
OK, I'll admit the original sounds better, but it's still pretty impressive :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jwTG8Sw5kk
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Not bad indeed !
I love the SID sound, its so iconic :spaceace:
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Heh, I really start liking modding the 600XL.
I replaced the OS ROM (which is normally a 128k ROM) with a 27512 EPROM and burned 4 different OS versions in it.
The idea to make two switches to be able to select between the 4 different OSes.
Why ?
Well I found an OS version which had the following improvements over the orignal:
- OPTION key inverted. This means it is no longer neccesary to hold the OPTION key down while booting to disable BASIC. You barely use BASIC anyway. This option is now inverted now which is great.
- it is now possible to do a cold-boot by holding the left shift key while pressing RESET. This saves a lot of turning off/on.
- the SIO routines have been patched which makes it possible to run the SIO port at mugh higher speeds than standard. This is great for use with the Happy Board that is in my 1050 Floppy Disk drive as it will now be in "turbo" made right away and automatically. This rocks !! This also works with SIO2PC etc.
OK so but why 4 OSes ?
Well first of all because I didn't have a 27128 EPROM anyway and also because you can :)
More reasons is that I also included the original OS for the (rare) situations where you need/want 100% compatiblity. The third OS is a patched version of the 400/800 OS so I can run the few games that really need this too (no need for "Translator" dics/files anymore.
The foruth OS is one I found about on the net. It includes the first three mentioned patches plus some more stuff and is especially usefull if you have 256k or more installed because it can automatically set-up RAMdisks etc. So not too usefull now, but well I had to burn the EPROM anyway.
Didn't have time to add the switches yet so I just bent up two pins and slammed the EPROM in the socket and it works great with the first OS I mentioned....
It's great to do hacking and everytime it works straight away. This is a nice change from the arcade stuff ;) ;) ;)
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Some EXCELLENT home-brew ports of well known arcade games on the A8 platform:
Castle Crisis (=Warlords)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsGkNe8xcQs
This is AWESOME if you have two sets of paddles you can play 4 player like the cocktail.
(Guess it's handy that both the original arcade machine and the A8 have POKEY for sound :))
Asteroids Emulator:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-mSZqHk1Us#t=55
Yes....this is an EMULATOR. The 6502 actually runs the original arcade roms code !!!!! It's only emulation is of course the display hardware and sound (yes it has sound, but not on this video).
Tempest Extreem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbpN4cMnQrw
Bomb Jack:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KO-cFt8ARX8
F-ing awesome IMHO :)