Dragon's Lair Fans - Arcade Lifestyle
General Chat => Technical Area => Topic started by: Belike on February 09, 2012, 10:33:18 PM
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I hope this topic will be useful for most of us, let it be a general SW repair, restoration and maintenance topic, you can share all your experiences and knowledge here. :D
Let me start with my first issue, 2 triggers on the left side of the controller didn't work.
Somehow I had a feeling, that is not a microswitch problem and took a closer look.
Tried to overrun the switches with an extra cable, but still didn't work, which means there is a cut wire somewhere.
Used my multimeter's continuity function to investigate the matching cable from pcb, no beep. :-\
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZrNxKhTlCoA/TzQ4bzYS54I/AAAAAAAAFXM/TZI9ZStQ1Bw/s800/20120125438.jpg)
Within a minute I found the problem, it was a loose cable from the molex (bad pic)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BuZtimNylb4/TzQ4bduv6pI/AAAAAAAAFXI/z3sfm5Mj2rI/s800/20120125442.jpg)
Reconnected it and it works like a charm. ;D
Unfortunately on the 2nd machine this trick didn't work, I will have to replace some switches there.
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Issue number 2:
As Archer stated on this pic, the right 3rd of the monitor is dead, sometimes there are some light vectors, but most of the time there is nothing could be seen.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ipuJ5WIU6Gk/TzQ8j7vT9gI/AAAAAAAAFXY/GPHhCLJpqS8/s720/SW_2__c.jpg)
It is not a gameboard related problem, I tried it out with another pcb, nothing changed.
I can make some more pics or video if needed.
Any ideas?
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Regretfully I know nothing about SW or color vectors....but I do wish you good luck !
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Seriously, well done on the first issue, most problems are simple :)
I think I have a bunch of microswitches -somewhere- that -might- fit....Ill send some as soon as I find them..
That monitor problem is weird.... really weird....
You might want to start with installing a LV2000. light.....
http://www.vector-repair.com/
Alternatively, because you have two same set-ups you could so comparison measurements. It seems like the horizontal deflection voltage is not getting to its full voltage, but then why only one side ??
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Yeah, really weird problem. :-\
I checked the manual of that LV2000, I' not sure I will be able to install it, but who dares wins. :D
About those switches, thanks to Steve (Ataritoobin), they are on the way from the states. ;)
Anyway, thanks André! ;)
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Installing an LV2000 is much easier than it looks. The instructions are pretty clear.
You just have to desolder (hey, nice job for your new toy !) a number of parts in the LV area. Then the LV2000 has a couple of legs (IIRC 4) that will go into 4 existing (left over) holes and you solder the pins and clip 'm. That's it.
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Ok, I will also have to order some other stuff from arcadeshop.com, it is also available there for the same price. ;)
I will also give it a try on KLOV, maybe somebody already had the same problem from there. :D
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Yeah always good to try...largest user base there ;)
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In test mode:
I made these pics in dark, the lines are not so thick, just my hands were shaky.
During the main theme, the are some light letters could be seen on that area.
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-yvBXmJCarC4/TzVbUtOYnxI/AAAAAAAAFZE/92gCNGb1guk/s912/Atari%2520vector%2520005.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-_HaQcz2zidg/TzVbVFiDJnI/AAAAAAAAFZI/pAxust_NAMo/s912/Atari%2520vector%2520002.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Tggg01wxShw/TzVbVdgwRmI/AAAAAAAAFZQ/fjc6pljshMI/s912/Atari%2520vector%2520007.jpg)
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So weird....on the "diamond" screen the right edge seems to be cut of in a "sings" wave, but on the hash screen it is a straight line....
Did you post these on KLOV yet ?
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So weird....on the "diamond" screen the right edge seems to be cut of in a "sings" wave, but on the hash screen it is a straight line....
Did you post these on KLOV yet ?
Yeah, right here (http://forums.arcade-museum.com/showthread.php?t=222848).
In the meantime a realized, that the LV 2000 kit was already installed. :D
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ZqbtkbFYOS0/TzZaPxT4MjI/AAAAAAAAFZg/kNrKZD9_GS8/s912/Atari%2520vector%2520015.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-8FctZXKtPBE/TzZaPjBkbXI/AAAAAAAAFZc/xYw38cK133A/s912/Atari%2520vector%2520011.jpg)
As you can see, there are some convergence strips also on the tube, seems like it was already tried to repair. ???
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Nah, those strips are often already installed at the factory. The reason is that the production tolerances simply didnt allow to have a perfect convergence wothout them.
Well...no LV needed .....
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Some vector expert guys on klov advised me to wiggle some connectors on the deflection board and turn the yoke 180 degrees.
I tried to wiggle that plug first, nothing happened.
Switched off the machine, disconnected that plug, cleaned the F700 fuse under it and when I turned it on again, there was just a vertical thin green line in the middle of the monitor for 10 sec, than nothing.
The game plays, but totally blind.
At this point I swapped the deflection board from my 2nd SW and it worked perfect, so it seems like the tube and yoke are ok, there is something with the deflection pcb.
I checked all the fuses (they were all ok) and tried the faulty pcb in the other SW, it indicated the same problem, thin green line for 10 sec, than nothing.
I measured the caps, they are also ok.
Any further ideas?
Thanks in advance.
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Buy a new deflection pcb.... ::)
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Yes I have further ideas. :)
First let me tell you that I do not like Wells Gardner. Everything I have seen from them is a POS so far. (6100s and K5515).
The build and design quality is about the same of that of US cars in the same period of time.....
Anyway, there is always hope !!
One of the things the 6100 is known for is having poor solderings at those connectors. Now, mind you, just renewing them will not always work !!
Sometimes there is a crack between the solder island and the track that is barely or not visible !
Anyway, remove the deflection board (remember where the conncetors go !!!) and get working with your desoldeing and soldering station !
Remove the old solder, then make a new soldering. Work pin by pin so the header pins dont fall out.
While you are ar it, renew rhe solderings of all big resistors.
Then try again and also again wiggle the connectors to see if there are hair cracks like I mentioned.
If picture is OK and stays Ok while jiggeling you are lucky. If not, its time to get out the DVM and measure all the tracks running from those connectors....
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Buy a new deflection pcb.... ::)
Thanks Michael, I knew I can always count on you. ;D
André@ Thanks for the tip, I also prefer the original amplifone monitor, maybe one day...........
By the way, I made tons of pics from all the connectors and the def.pcb, I wanted to be sure to reinstall it in the correct way, that is not so simple like a MTC 900. :D
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Buy a new deflection pcb.... ::)
Thanks Michael, I knew I can always count on you. ;D
Hehe, couldn't resist with a lame answer... :D
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We'll forgive you.......................on September the first !
Béla, I can help you with the board if you want...you can send it, I'll have to work on a WG6100 soon anyway (right Atarimania ;)) !
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Thanks André, I will a try to test those transistors, that Dez advised me on Klov, if I fail, I will send it to the Master! ;)
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I really have no idea why he wants you to test those.
If I read your story correctly the collapse happened after you had been wiggling and disconnected and re-connected the connectors, right ?
Thus I think there's something wrong with the connection. Transistors don't all of a sudden go bad because you wiggle a connector somewhere IMHO.
Maybe you can make a macro pic of that connector (solder side) ?
Anyway Dez is a great guy and has done miracle things with recreating Amplifone hardware so he does know what he's talking about, and it can't really harm to check them....
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Here we go:
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cFES-2BRCvg/TzvkaNui8pI/AAAAAAAAFcA/o94io8Zhj3c/s800/IMG_4167.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-V9beTBzafnM/Tzvkac7IGSI/AAAAAAAAFb4/glsLvMM0Gt0/s800/IMG_4169.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z00JEixddiI/TzvkZ5iw-SI/AAAAAAAAFb8/Xn272p8Z4hg/s800/IMG_4170.JPG)
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These look like cracked / bad solderjoints to me..
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/crack2.jpg)
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/crack.jpg)
Better reflow all..
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Yup...2nd pic riht most pin of the commector....pretty obvious crack in the soldering. Did you try to move that pin while looking at the soldering ?
The 3rd from the right also looks suspicious already....
Anyway, they all look dull, renew at least all the connctor solderings....
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Yup, just zoomed in on that first pic and Etienne is 100% right all of those show obvious cracks.
The one on the left of the left-most circle is bad too and so is the one lower right hand side of the right-most red circle.
Conclusion, do all connector pins like I said, totally remove the solder, then inspect again to see if the track and the solder island around the pin is notcracked !! before soldering it again....
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i didn't even zoom :D
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i didn't even zoom :D
Saw the one's you circled without zooming too, but with I saw two more ;););)
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Here's a brilliant drawing I just made....
this shows what I mean with the possible crack between the solder island and the track....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100937/IMG_0102/web.jpg?ver=13294004140001)
Check this using a magnifying glass or similar and AFTER you removed the old solder and BEFORE you do the new soldering.
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Nice one André! ;D ;D ;D
I just did the job and aslo replaced a broken 0,47uf 35V cap, but nothing changed. :(
I also made a continuity test on the new soldered areas and they are fine by now, seems like there is something else broken.
I will also give a try to those transistors soon.
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man, andré, you are an artist!!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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It is rather expressive don't you think ? Those minimalistic lines ? Yeah....I'm pretty happy with it, although, as you know, a piece of art is never really finished....
;D ;D ;D
Béla....man that's too bad I had such good hope ! So...you're basically at what level now, right side dark or.... no picture at all ?
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Didn't make pics, I'm a bit pissed off, my pc's psu is also broken and switching off my machine in every 20 second. :-\
It is a miracle, that I could turn it on now.
I will try to make that transistor test tomorrow, if it won't work, check your mailbox next week. ;)
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Here's a brilliant drawing I just made....
(http://gallery.me.com/andre.huijts/100937/IMG_0102/web.jpg?ver=13294004140001)
I Love it ! ;D
Didn't make pics, I'm a bit pissed off, my pc's psu is also broken and switching off my machine in every 20 second. :-\
It is a miracle, that I could turn it on now.
I will try to make that transistor test tomorrow, if it won't work, check your mailbox next week. ;)
A customer some time ago complained about his laptop with the same issue, it was only not 20 seconds, it was after 5 minutes..
at first i thought it was the mainboard, but then i thought it could be temperature related...
(http://www.opdenkelder.com/pics/fullfan.jpg)
the second thought was right ;D ;D ;D
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Hehehe, nice fix Etienne. :D
There is also tons on dust in mine, but also a weird sound is coming from the psu, sound like crickett's(insect) singing.
It could be also heard when the machine is switched off. ???
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Back on this, here is my noob description about the results. :D
I desoldered Q703, used the red pin of my voltmeter as a base on the middle leg and tried to touch the other 2 on both sides with the black one.In both cases I got about 760-780 on the meter.
I did the same method with Q704, in this case I used the black one for base and got the same values in each direction.
Does it mean that both components are broken?
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Ok, the pcb was sent to André today. ;)
In the meantime, I received a small package from the States:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-NwBGfoXAr4w/T0Ptj6SKp_I/AAAAAAAAFcw/rIkR1_7DH60/s912/Switches%2520001.jpg)
Let's take a look inside
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-_BT4P4ADCuM/T0PtjwUNqZI/AAAAAAAAFcs/ldv4KIPRyNQ/s912/Switches%2520002.jpg)
Originally I bought 6 trigger microswitches, but Steve (Ataritoobin) made it 7 somehow, it was a great deal and another great effort. ;D
Many thanks Steve!!! :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Mmm....these look better than the one's I still have around....those are used, these look brand new :)
Better !
I didn't receive the board yet..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I didn't receive the board yet..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
When you will receive it, we are kindly ask you to update this topic with pics from the repair. ;)
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Cool, glad they made it ok! :)
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I didn't receive the board yet..... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
When you will receive it, we are kindly ask you to update this topic with pics from the repair. ;)
I'm not sure Béla, I may be starting Europe's first vector monitor repair company ;);)
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Hey Béla,
Not entirely sure....the last thing you saw from this deflection board was just that straight line right ? Horizontal or vertical ?
And that was the same on both cabs ?
checked all diodes and transistor and can't find a bad one.
Also measured all continuity from the header pins and they look fine. (Nice solder job by the way !)
What I did notice is that the GND wire on the LV 2000 seems to be loose ? Don't see that on any of your pictures....
Will compare with Franck's deflection board, it has a LV2000 too...
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Originally there was a missing part from the picture on the right bottom corner, then the whole screen disappeard, there was just a thin vertical line for about 10 sec and then nothing.
I tested it in both cabs, they are wotk fine with the other def. pcb.
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As a birthday surprise to Béla (OK, Zita's birthday really...)........
This board is now fixed !
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It's just a fuse...
Yes it took a lot of time.....The main reason for this was not having a good working monitor to compare things and test the board in a known working set-up. Thanks to the fact that I reworked Thwocker's 6100 I did finally have that possibility.
Anyway....I'm sure you guys are holding on to your chairs with sweat on your foreheads to learn what was wrong with it but a master never gives away his secrets.................
O well, WTF:
To refresh memories: first this deflection board produced a picture with missing picture on the far right of the screen. Later there was no picture at all IIRC.
The first thing I noticed was that the already installed LV2000 was one big mess. There was a time when LV2000s were sold as a kit and when you looked at this one it is very clear why they stopped selling them as kits :) it was done by someone who didn't have the faintest idea about soldering/assembling PCBs.
Luckily Jeff Hendrix saw the posting on KLOV forum and contacted me and offered a FREE new replacement for it. IMHO that was totally awesome because someone clearly screwed up that LV2000 which was not his fault, nor was I or Béla the original buyer. This clearly shows the opinion that Jeff has about customer service, which is a 1000% contrast with what I have experienced with a seller of a competing similar product....
Anyway, I removed the old LV2000 and it was a totall loss, so I ditched it and installed the new mini version.
Installed the board in Thwocker's monitor and I got no picture at all, the spot killer came on.
So I turned up the brightness on the flyback and got a nice vertical stripe, so clearly there was no x deflection.
Removed the board and went looking for the problem. Gotta say I did all the basic stuff already so I knew caps, transistors and diodes were all ok. Checked resistors, all OK, also re soldered all the connectors so....what was left that could be the problem......
I noticed that this board had some corrosion on some parts and the fuse holders and fuses looked not great. So I measured the fuses on the soldering side and sure enough, they were all OK except for the one that is inline with the x deflection coil. That one showed a resistance, it was a bit varying but somewhere between 8 and 20 ohms. That's not a lot resistance, but it is way too much for a fuse and fuse holder.
Even so....if this fuse would have been in a power line, it wouldn't have mattered much (although it might be visible still). But since this fuse is in series with the deflection yoke, to be exact, the X coil. It DID make a huge difference.
A deflection coil has a resistance of just a few ohms usually for vector monitors so an extra resistance like this will completely shut down the deflection on that axis.
It was mostly the fuse clamps causing the resistance, but the fuse itself showed corrosion too so I decided to replace them and on both axis.
Since we are in Europe and since we prefer the smaller sized fuses here (and since I have a nice set of these fuses for my work anyway ;);)) I decided to put in two "Euro sized" fuse holders that I once bought from RS. They include nice plastic see-through caps and the holders fit exactly in the same holes as the original US sized one's.
Installed the board back and presto, brilliant picture !
There, you go, "It's just a fuse", who would have guessed and yet another thing learned ! :)
I put it through my usual test routine of tapping with the back of a screwdriver on the PCB all over the board to see if there are still any bad solderings or other bad contacts but it stayed rock solid.
The only thing that is a bit weird is that the spot killer LED lights up a little bit in the "pattern" of the vector being drawn. Not sure if that's normal, but the picture is absolutely perfect.
I'll do an endurance test soon and then this baby can FINALLY go back to Hungary ! :)
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This picture already shows the corrosion, this is the very fuse and holders that caused the trouble....
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This picture already shows the corrosion, this is the very fuse and holders that caused the trouble....
what pic ? i dont see any ?
Anyway, great work !
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Wow, just a fuse holder, lol. ;D
I guess most of us would gave this up, thanks for the repair and for the great explanation. :spaceace:
Send you a pm. soon. ;)
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Seems like I only had 3 working deflection pcbs for 1 day. :-\
After a 3-4 months break, I fired up my Star Wars and saw some flames coming from the deflection pcb.
Fortunately the back door was open and I stood behind the cab, so I turned it off after a sec.
Seems like C703 burned, it is a 0,47K100 resistor or something and I can see also some burns on R711 and R712.
I didn't dare to install the other deflection pcb from my ESB, any ideas where to start?
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rufehGtj3eM/Uy78XlRjQ8I/AAAAAAAAIdw/M8wI5FOhL68/s720/WG6100%2520003.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-g0gRdmXzhE0/Uy78WjX2lSI/AAAAAAAAId0/OLZIOikSj04/s720/WG6100%2520005.jpg)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-H9bfW5NG0h4/Uy78XzRNUeI/AAAAAAAAId4/P6SCsOwYFCs/s720/WG6100%2520004.jpg)
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6100s........Maybe we should just burn them all..... ;D
What board version is it, P314,P327 or Something else ?
First check the big transistors on the chassis with your multimeter in diode test setting. John just did a good video about it:
http://youtu.be/nxuRSEtjaCo
Oh and C703 is a capacitor not a resistor.
Rxxx = resistor
Cxxx = capacitor
Dxxx = Diode
Fxxx = Fuse
Qxxx = transistor...........don't ask me why it's not a T :)
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To go back to the one I fixed:
This was the picture I meant Etienne:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z00JEixddiI/TzvkZ5iw-SI/AAAAAAAAFb8/Xn272p8Z4hg/s800/IMG_4170.JPG)
I also noticed a nice hint that Béla wrote on his thread about this on KLOV forum:
Switched off the machine, disconnected that plug, cleaned the F700 fuse under it and when I turned it on again, there was just a vertical thin green line in the middle of the monitor for 10 sec, than nothing.
My theory:
Corrosion is usually not so much a problem because....the stuff that corrodes is in the open air. So f.i. for a fuse, the holder and the fuse caps may have corrosion but as long as you leave it as it is (and it works) there's no problem because there is no corrosion between the metal where the holder and the fuse touch each other.
BUT....when you take out the fuse, and put it back turned around a bit, the corrosion will now be between the holder and the fuse :)
Pretty sure that this is what has happened :D
However, it was good to replace them anyway.
While we're on this subject: there were other parts like transistors and diodes that showed some corrosion on the leads too. But as long as they are in their original soldered spots there's no problem.
At one point I noticed (by feeling, carefully bending) that one of the small transistors was not "fixed" like it should. By just moving it around a couple of times one of the leads broke.
So I removed the old solderings and put the transistor all the way down to the board (I hate it how they kept the leads so long on the 6100's, another quality issue). However, once I did this I could not solder back the transistor legs anymore. The solder would not "grab" on the leads.....the reason was the corrosion on the legs.
Just one solution: new transistor :)
SO......corrosion is definitly something to keep an eye on...I haven't seen it much on PCBs but this one obviously has been in a moist surrounding for quite some time...
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The solder would not "grab" on the leads.....the reason was the corrosion on the legs.
Just one solution: new transistor :)
Or high grid sandpaper, (depending on the cost and availability of the transistor ofcourse)
That fuseholder indeed looks corroded, and i think your explanation is the correct one.
Again, i guess its not worth the trouble to sandpaper that, and just throw in a new holder and fuse, but i think sandpaper also solved the issue.
the theory of the exposed parts corroding is correct, but i think also the corrosion will grow in between the fuse and holder as its not soldered or hermatically enclosed, so there is air there and like battery acid, it will grow in there
like you said, best thing is just comletely eliminate the corrosion and replace it complete
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Yeah well I have the small sized fuses in plenty and the holders were still here ;)
You are partially right about the corrosion, however, if it turn the fuse in between my fingers I can easily see what spots have been in contact with the holder (those have no or minimal corrosion) and the spots that have been in the open air clearly.
I really think if I had put back the fuse "the right way" the issue might have been gone.
Anyway, this was the best solution that will work again for some 30 years. Also IF the fuses blow now you can get those size fuses almost everywhere for very little money, getting the US sized one's is harder and/or more expensive.
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Yep, right thing to do was replace it completely, and indeed, for future replacements its alot easier for us europeans than US size !
all in all, perfect repair ! :spaceace:
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Thanks for the tip André, I watched the first half hour of John's video, it's a really good one, his explanations are great for noobs like me. :D
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It is a P314. ;)
I watched John's video carefully, removed the monitor from the cab and tried to test the big transistors on the metal frame.
There are 6 of them, 3 pieces of 2N3792 and another 3 2N3716.
I measured them one by one, 3 of them look like ok, the situation with the other 3 is the following:
2N3716: with the black lead of the multimeter on the base and the red on the emitter the value is 1228, there should be no reading
2N3716: no readings at all with all six measure types
2N3792: no readings at all with all six measure types
Seems like 3 transistors gone at the same time, is it possible? ???
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So you got your multimeter in diode test ? and what do you mean with no reading at all, zero's on the screen and a beeping sound?
By the way.....this was another thing that could have put me off the right track with fixing your board that I got here.....if you set the multimeter in diode check and you measure a resistance like a couple of ohms, it will still beep.....you'll think nothing is wrong with it.
So, the only proper way to measure fuses 100% is from soldering pad to soldering pad and in Ohms setting only !!
But that's just something else...
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Ok, some pics would say more than 1000 words. :D
I used the multimeter (crap one) in diode test mode, if I don't touch anything, there is a number "1" on the display.
This is the metal frame with the transistors:
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-sj6hW8sQZ9g/UzCUwp1uSOI/AAAAAAAAIeo/0_AEW_M6kvs/s720/WG6100%2520010.jpg)
The 3716 should show a value between 500-900 with the red lead on base and black on emitter.
This is the good one:
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-e6Afw0NBZTs/UzCUvtidO9I/AAAAAAAAIeM/GcFtutG46Dk/s720/WG6100%2520006.jpg)
The suspected bad one with the same lead setup:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-kXJ_B5n_CuY/UzCUvhdoxJI/AAAAAAAAIeU/iF5G3wx5O-c/s720/WG6100%2520007.jpg)
The 3792 should show the same value with the leads exchanged:
The good one:
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NpFLBFEwTgI/UzCUwXxZR8I/AAAAAAAAIek/hlqpx1_8nuA/s720/WG6100%2520009.jpg)
The bad one does not show the same "1" as the 3716, it shows 000.
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eno7A2rwjMY/UzCUvm--k7I/AAAAAAAAIec/KQPWRLYMlb4/s720/WG6100%2520008.jpg)
I tried it in Ohms setting, I got the same values.
Also tried between the base and collector, same values.
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The one showing the 000's is DEAD :)
Full short on all legs....replace it :)
The one showing the 1 ....remove it from the socket and measure again....there could also be a bad contact on the socket.
The blown transistor "pulled down" the burnt resistors...Because the transistor died, a much higher current was running through these parts and this made them burn.
You'll have to replace those burnt parts too and have to check the transistors on the deflection PCB too.
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Your "first" PCB has just past a 2 hours test in attract mode on my SW. I think it is fit for the trip home.
The flickering spot killer LED stays though....not sure if that is a problem or not, I asked at KLOV.
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Many thanks my Friend for your advises and for the pcb. ;) :spaceace:
I found some 3792 in Budapest, but have to order the 3716s from ebay.
Or anybody has a few pieces for sale here?
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I can get replacements...(See my "equivalents" thread) but at this moment there is some discussion on KLOV about those replacing transistors causing some small issues on the picture.
It has to do with the "parasitic capacitance" of the transistors....this is a specification not often listed on datasheets but could have quite some influence.
In fact, I'm about to replace one of the transistors on my original Amplifone deflection board with an original 2N3716 to see if the picture will improve.
I think the only "big" issue is that when SW shows a lot of text you'll see some "squiggles" in the short vectors that make up the text.
I have always rendered this as something common on color vectors on SW machines because I can't remember seeing one without them....
On my Amplifone deflection board I have still 3 transistors that have been there from the factory (all RCA and production date are very close to SW's production year) but one has been replaced with another one. So, I'll put a 2N3716 in there to see if there's any improvement.
If not, I can get plenty of replacements or indicate them for you so you can source them locally.
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Cool, some equivalents are available here, they will be good for testing. ;)
Never thought, that I will ever try to fix a vector monitor. ;D
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Vectors are easy.....rasters are much harder.
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I can get replacements...(See my "equivalents" thread) but at this moment there is some discussion on KLOV about those replacing transistors causing some small issues on the picture.
It has to do with the "parasitic capacitance" of the transistors....this is a specification not often listed on datasheets but could have quite some influence.
In fact, I'm about to replace one of the transistors on my original Amplifone deflection board with an original 2N3716 to see if the picture will improve.
I think the only "big" issue is that when SW shows a lot of text you'll see some "squiggles" in the short vectors that make up the text.
I have always rendered this as something common on color vectors on SW machines because I can't remember seeing one without them....
On my Amplifone deflection board I have still 3 transistors that have been there from the factory (all RCA and production date are very close to SW's production year) but one has been replaced with another one. So, I'll put a 2N3716 in there to see if there's any improvement.
If not, I can get plenty of replacements or indicate them for you so you can source them locally.
That's interesting, if you can make some pictures or video..... If possible to capture this effect.
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Some further rookie questions :D:
I have to replace the burned R711 and 712 resistors.
On Dezbaz's parts list page, the 711 is a 10R ±5%,1/4W, is it this one?:
http://www.hqelektronika.hu/product/res_10r_0_25w
The 712 is a 3R3±5%,1/2W, I didn't find this value here, just a bit higher or lower and they are 1%:
http://www.hqelektronika.hu/product/res_3r3_0_4w
http://www.hqelektronika.hu/product/res_3r3_0_4w
Can I use these?
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Yes to all.
The 1% tolerance is because those are metal film resistors which are more precise and overall better quality than carbon film resistors. They are more expensive though...
More Watts is always OK, it just means it can handle more power, it's always OK to go higher on wattage but not lower when it comes to resistors.
About the values: 3R3 means 3,3 Ohms Resistor.
Checked values with schematics => OK.
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Thanks André, so it is like in the case of capacitors, you can go higher in volts/watts. ;D
I bought all the parts, just have to put them together. ;)
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Exactly Béla !
I just fixed the last issue on your deflection board....the flickering Spot killer LED bothered me, so I asked around at KLOV and the Vector list and two replies pointed towards the caps in that circuit. The FAQ already mentions it's a good idea to replace the caps with higher values (they did it in later production too) so I replaced C801,802,803 and 804 with 1uF 50V electrolytic types and just gave it a test-run: BINGO ! No more flickering LED :)
It should be in the post tomorrow so you can replace that burnt one my friend :)
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Thanks for spending your time/energy to make it perfect Mr. Vector Master. :D :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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Meanwhile, I replaced all burned parts, fired up the monitor, unfortunately no picture at all, only "background brightness". :-\
I've read, that this could be a bad transistor.
There is no visual burning this time, but there is a smell again.
I desoldered Q703 (mpsu57 transistor) and tested it, seems like it is broken.
I made some research on the net about the known equivalents, the only available part is BC516 here.
Can you confirm, that it is a good replacement for MPSU 57?
http://www.hqelektronika.hu/product/bc516
There is also one for MPSU07:
http://www.hqelektronika.hu/product/bc516
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Since I'll have to send the board in a moment I'll throw in two MPSU56s for you Béla !
Although I haven't tested them in a 6100 I did test them in an Amplifone board and they work just fine.
They are slightly less specced than the 57's but the values that they have to handle on both the Amplifone and 6100 are way within the margins so IMHO they are safe to use.
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Zillion thanks. ;) :spaceace: :spaceace: :spaceace:
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It's on it's way but the mail man just walked out with the cart at the post "office" so it will be leaving tomorrow....
My jaw fell on the floor when the lady mentioned the price: €18,50 !!!!!!
I said, miss....this has to go to Hungary, that is in Europe, not the US !!!
She said Hungary is "Zone 2" in Europe and hence more expensive than closer countries.... :roll:
It is completely INSANE how shipping prices have EXPLODED the last few years. Just 3 or 4 years ago I'd ship something that size and weight to the US for that amount of money !!!! :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:
I'll e-mail the details my friend...
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Some pics from your board Béla:
The brand new LV2000 mini, quite an improvement over the one that was on there...
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7056/13452708874_43a220a5f1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/muLDEs)
The new fuse holders:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7338/13452343105_9df3629e2e_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/muJLW6)
with neat protective caps over them :)
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/13452466463_724ce38a50_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/muKpAX)
...and the new caps....
(https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3732/13452714254_8831affd09_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/muLFgd)
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Yeah, shipping prices became insane from this side also in the past year.
Never saw a fuse holder with that cap, looks great. :D
Can't wait to install it to the ESB cab and fire it up. ;)
Thanks André! :spaceace:
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received the package last week from André with some extra transistors. :D
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-BKChQebIt60/U0LrQpz82bI/AAAAAAAAIiM/xL-JASLMWfQ/s720/WG%25206100%2520Andr%25C3%25A9%2520001.jpg)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QnAsNKPVpvk/U0LrQnw80eI/AAAAAAAAIiI/KSMNgbQthMo/s720/WG%25206100%2520Andr%25C3%25A9%2520003.jpg)
Long story short, I installed the board and fried it with some bad transistors in the metal frame of the tube. :-\
Fortunately I could replace some burned resistors and the guilty chassis transistors, half of the screen came back.
With the help of Dezbaz, André and some nice guys on KLOV, we could figure out, that the brand new transistor I installed was broken, it still looks fine with the multimeter, just stopped working. :D
Threw in another one and everything works fine here. :D
Next step, the Mark Spaeth ESB kit resets itself time to time, it could be a bad connection between the kit and pcb, but I'm not sure if it is not the bigger edge connector on the main pcb, when I touch that, it resets the game and it absolutely does not hold tight.
I will put my simple Star Wars pcb to this cab and we will see what happens......... ;)
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Replaced the pcb with the ESB kit with a "single" Star Wars, it runs fine for hours without resetting itself, so it will be the MS kit, not the edge connector.
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Sorry but you are jumping too quickly to a conclusion :)
The kit draws extra power so it could still be that the connection is good enough for the normal set but not for the one with the kit.....orrrrrrr, did you measure the +5V on the board at all ?
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Sorry but you are jumping too quickly to a conclusion :)
The kit draws extra power so it could still be that the connection is good enough for the normal set but not for the one with the kit.....orrrrrrr, did you measure the +5V on the board at all ?
No I didn't, it was just a quick noob conclusion, just you said. :D
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Hi, I have a copckpit of Star War but when open I found a disaster!
No Pcb ( I must buy one on Ebay) No wiring harness (buy on ebay but I don't know if right one) Monitor is Hantarex (Now looking for an original Amplifon 25")
So, where I can found a manual for cable wiring harness? I found a manual but not read anything about cable assistance.
Thank you